How Men Can Provide Safety and Security for their Family in a Heart Centered Way

[00:28] What does family and fatherhood mean?

[00:28] Damianne President: You have three children. Could you share with listeners what does fatherhood and family mean to you?

[00:35] Blase Grinner: Everything, everything. It’s a huge part and aspect of my existence, my mission on this planet. I think it’s one of the greatest privileges we can have as a man, is to be a father.

I also know there are some men that can’t bear children and families that can’t bear children. Though when I look at fatherhood, it’s more than just the blood. So I think fatherhood, that role doesn’t necessarily have to be blood. My stepfather was more of a father figure to me than my biological dad. And so fatherhood I feel is very important. 

[01:11] The relationships of fatherhood

[01:11] Damianne President: You just mentioned fatherhood being a role. I think fatherhood is a role and it’s also a kind of relationship. So how do you think about the relationships that are involved in fatherhood?

[01:24] Blase Grinner: It’s interesting. So I have three children and the relationship with each of them is different, but also simultaneously the same. With fatherhood, my first child was an amazing experience. Then my second child, when he was born, I was conflicted as a man with the relationship because he was identical looking to the eldest boy, and I couldn’t see him for his own individuality.

So the first six weeks I was questioning myself like, Oh, do I love him? A bit of a taboo topic to own that. So I started talking about it very vocally in social media, and a lot of people declared that uncertainty of loving two children simultaneously.

But parenthood or fatherhood of multiple children has taught me that we can love children simultaneously. It was a really beautiful experience. Those relationships are very important. That’s super important for our upbringing. We look into where our value systems come from. The very first imprint years of those zero to seven years is super important to our developmental stages as children. We form a lot of habits and traits and take a lot of traumas from those early years. So I think those relationships we can form at very young ages are very, very crucial.

[02:39] The goal as a father

[02:39] Damianne President: And what are the important things for you in terms of building those relationships? What’s your goal? 

[02:45] Blase Grinner: For me, I think my role as a father is to provide safety for my children to take calculated risks, and so provide the environment where they feel safe. And that risk is like being able to feel safe to bear all of their emotions, to explore their individuality, to test boundaries, to figure out who they are.

I was talking to a dear brother last night. He’s got four girls. He had a girl, then they had triplet girls. And we’re talking, now these girls are a little bit older than my boys, and I’ve got two boys and a girl, so I’ve got four, two, and one. And we’re talking about fire and how we’ve taught our children around fire so they can have respect for fire but then be around it.

Kids are very, very curious. And so I think fire was a really beautiful example of the calculated risk. So I’m not sure if you guys have over there, like citronella candles. There’s a flame coming outta it. Now that flame won’t give you a third degree burn, but you’ll know it’s hot. So all of my children, I’ve allowed them to touch that, which did trigger my partner cuz Mama Bear’s role is also safety. But the calculated risk is a little bit more of a parameter. 

So even now, my 16 month, year old baby, she can be around a fire pit because she understands it’s hot. We did swimming lessons and one of the swimming teachers told us this, that teaching kids to swim at a very young age, what it does, it takes the curiosity away of the pool. And there a lot of like toddlers that had never seen pools before, they fall in and dunno how to swim. But because they toddlers know what it is, like, oh yeah, that’s just a pool; they’ll just go and do their own thing and be children and play.

 So yeah, a couple of tangents there, though. I think my responsibility as a father is to provide that safety for them to discover who they are as an individual. That safety, I think, is the biggest thing for kids. 

[04:38] Damianne President: I appreciate those examples because one thing I was thinking of is what does this look like as a child grows up, in terms of providing safety, will be different at different ages. Those examples were enlightening to show how you think about it.

[04:53] Blase Grinner: Yeah, well, the four year old, he just wants to help. He’s in that place of leadership and he’s the eldest. So, I let him come up and work and chop food with me. And the other day I’m like, Oh, I’m gonna give him a trust exercise without him knowing. So he had a big carving knife and I said, Hey buddy, you know, this is very sharp and I let him touch to see how sharp it is.

Daddy’s going to the fridge, but you can hold this. Now you can’t cut anything until daddy comes back. But when we come back, then we can cut some more. And so I walked away. I was watching him the whole time. He couldn’t see me, but he held reverence to the knife, gave so much respect.

 I’ll use my example of childhood. I hated getting told what to do and how to do it, hated the dictatorship aspect. And so the way we’re bringing up our children is the experiential learning of like allowing them to make mistakes, learn from themselves. And it’s been super challenging as a father, seeing them struggle and then wanting to jump in and take over and help. It’s through that struggle that they really develop and learn beautiful lessons; I think adults do as well. Through struggle, we learn a lot of beautiful lessons. 

[05:57] Damianne President: I’ve been watching this Japanese TV show on Netflix called Old Enough. Have you seen it?

[06:04] Blase Grinner: No. 

[06:05] Helping kids build agency and modeling how to process emotions

[06:05] Damianne President: Okay, so it’s about parents sending their children on an errand. The first episode, the child is two years and nine months, for example, and walks one kilometer to the grocery store to buy a bunch of stuff for the parents. And I think it’s designed in a way, in Japanese culture, that the community knows and looks out for the child. But in some of those episodes you see the kids struggling and the parents are looking, you know, from a distance and they are being filmed so they’re not completely alone, but resisting that urge to go and help a kid when you can see them struggling or they even come and ask you for help, that must be really tough.

How do you manage that?

[06:56] Blase Grinner: To the best of my ability. It’s just really interesting navigating kids’ emotions because they’re just being kids and I just know that when I’m trying to control a situation, I’m just causing my own suffering. Like bath time, for example, I get really triggered when the kids are in the bath cause we got a big bath and three of them can fit in there and they splash.

If I’m tired from the day, it can just get under my skin when in the actual meaning, it’s just water. I can clean it up and they’re just being kids. Sometimes challenged but I think it’s a really beautiful learning curve around being the example of how to be with my emotions.

Our daughter started kindergarten today and it was just interesting cuz I got very excited; all the kids are left the nest for the first time to go to kindergarten. And my partner came home just bawling her eyes out cuz her baby left. And it’s like this letting go of just like the last times.

So she’s coming up to the very last time she’ll ever breastfeed in about a month’s time. It’s just interesting how I’ve noticed with my partner, I noticed the feminine letting go process of all these milestones when they’re reached. Whereas for myself and a lot of men that I’ve talked to, it’s the opposite cause we’re very proud; it’s more of an excitement thing. I find that very interesting as well, the different dynamics between the male and the female or the masculine and the feminine in the parenting roles. It’s really, really cool.

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[08:37] Showing up for your partner 

[08:37] Damianne President: In terms of parenting, what does the relationship look like with your partner? You just gave some examples about how the emotional experience can be different in different situations, but what does it mean about how you have to show up for each other?

[08:52] Blase Grinner: It’s interesting because there’s other people to think of other than just ourself. And being young parents too, it’s been the exploration of like how we doing it, questioning ourselves. And I think it’s really being vigilant of open communication. And a big thing that we try and do in our relationship is ensure that we have each other’s back and we choose each other before the children which is very counterintuitive, but it’s super important. 

An example of this is we have certain boundaries of how we make sure that if the child is not behaving in alignment with our values or how we would like to bring them up, that the consequence matches what they’re doing. So if they’re not sharing a toy, gonna go send them to the room is not the right consequence. So yeah, we’re very vigilant of that.

Though if I was reprimanding one of my children and my partner came up in front of the children and said, You shouldn’t be doing it like that, takes my power away, my authority away, and it gives the kids this one up. That, as a couple, is super challenging to bite our tongue and just wait for that moment until it’s like, hey, that was out of alignment of how we wanna do it. With both of us, we’re very guilty of it, but we’re very also conscious of it as well as like, Okay, cool, next time.

[10:19] Teaching kids to process their emotions

[10:19] Blase Grinner: The other thing that we found is there’s this company called Generation Mindful, and they’ve got this thing called the Calming Corner. There’s these posters that we got, so we put them in a calming corner, and it’s about emotional regulation and then allowing the kids to articulate their feelings and put words to them at a very young age.

I know some men and adults don’t even know; they think they’re angry, but they’re really jealous and stuff like that. So it’s been a really cool tool for us. So getting down on their level and then going through. There’s heaps of colors and shapes in alignment with the chakras and so they go all through the chakras.

And if you are in an emotional state or heightened state, you can pick three things to do, like hug a teddy, drink a glass of water, count to 10, read a book, and there’s all these things. So when he started doing that and it was really beautiful because we never got brought up like that.

And so now, we get a lot of feedback from our four year old, being able to articulate how he’s feeling, like I’m feeling upset right now. I’m feeling angry right now. And he’s been able to articulate that. So yeah, that’s been one thing that’s really helped us with our parenting, always asking, how are you feeling right now, and bringing that kind of curiosity to the conversations. So even when they’re lashing out and angry and frustrated, it’s like, how are you feeling? You look like you’re frustrated. I am frustrated.

[11:42] Damianne President: I think that is so important for adults listening. There’s a book and resources from Dr. Joan Rosenberg. It goes a lot into the different emotions that one can feel, and learning how to name them. Because you’re right, sometimes we are quite narrow in our descriptions but there is so many more emotions that we can learn to articulate, and starting with children and giving them that language is a very powerful thing,

[12:09] Blase Grinner: This is a very big generalization though, right. Our generation, emotions like anger and sadness being frowned upon, called negative emotions. And I grew up with children must be seen and not heard. Stop crying. I’ll give you something to cry about. And now with our children, it is challenging because we don’t know our own emotions. 

And so if our child is going through a hard time, we allow them to go through that hard time in safety and comfort. So they might be having a meltdown in a coffee shop and screaming. And we’ll just hold space for that. And as parents, this is where we’ve really had to hold each other because we can feel the daggers coming, like feel people like, shut that dude up. 

And sometimes the judgment gets really hard that we’ll get back in the car and we’ll be upset. But we know that we’re doing what we believe is a good thing, that these kids can feel safe, especially my two boys, and just so they don’t grow up like I grew up or a lot of men grew up thinking that it’s not okay to cry, they have to suck it up and that they’re not allowed to be frustrated. 

But teaching my boys how to release anger effectively and healthy. And so an example, looks like you’re frustrated, you’ve got angry, man, and to take him in the bedroom and like punch the pillow and use their voice. It’s really beautiful when I’m like, hey buddy, is there more left in there? They’ll look within like, Yeah. Let’s go then buddy. Any more? No, I’m good Daddy. And they just go back and it’s just like, yeah, it is cool to be able to. Cause emotions are just there; they’re emotions. There’s no negative emotions. They’re all beautiful. They’re all pointers, I believe.

[13:48] Damianne President: That’s the real investment, right? Because those are the habits that help with mental health. These are the lifelong habits, when we talk about blueprints in childhood that help with figuring out how to go through the world at all ages.

[14:02] Fatherhood guilt

[14:02] Blase Grinner: We did a couple of conscious parenting courses and stuff, and as a young father, oh, I’m 38, so I started a little bit later, but as in like, I was new to fatherhood. I had this fatherhood guilt. I had to be super present and like there all the time with my child because my dad left when I was seven, so I just had that abandonment stuff, so I thought I had to be super present.

But then through the studies they’ve said that so long as we’re like present with our children for 30% of the time, they still get nourished within that 30%. So it was like we’re sitting down, we’re playing with them, not thinking about work or anything else, but we’re just there, present with them. That’s enough.

And when I heard that, I was like, oh my God. I was able to take the pressure off myself cuz it was super exhausting cuz there’s a lot of other aspects to life; fatherhood and children are one of it. But yeah, that was one aspect of fatherhood and the other was some feedback a coach gave me once and he’s like, man, you place a lot of pressure on yourself to be the world’s first perfect father. It’s never gonna happen. And then just bring that humor to that. That changed my life, just that one sentence.

As fathers, we’re never gonna be the world’s first perfect father; we’re always gonna slip. But yeah, as long as we can come back. 

[15:21] Parenting commitments and supporting your partner

[15:21] Blase Grinner: Actually, when you asked about the relationship with our children and my partner, a big thing that we do is we ensure that if we slip as adults, we come back and own it. Hey buddy, that wasn’t okay how Daddy spoke to you. I’m very sorry and I won’t do it again. Because we’re asking them to do that to their siblings. And so, yeah. That’s a big thing to do and that’s something my partner and I enroll each other in. It’s like, hey, you gonna go clean that up now? Are you back in your body? Like, yep. And so that’s how we support each other in that way as well, to be able to go back down.

 There’s been several times that I’ve broken down in front of my kids. I’ve just been super frustrated and like raised my voice and could see my boys get scared. It’s just like, Oh man, that sucks, but just go on and show if you’re sad, cry in front of him. Show them that I’m really sad cause it hurts me to do that and that we are human. We make mistakes. And so yeah, that’s definitely one thing that we try and do is those clearing conversations with the kids as well, or ownership.

[16:29] Conscious Parenting

[16:29] Damianne President: Yeah, and those are big topics too, right, the whole idea of repair. Breaks happen everywhere in all sorts of relationships, and the ability to repair for yourself, but also model that for your children is significant. Are there any books or resources that you recommend for conscious parenting?

[16:49] Blase Grinner: We did hand on courses with the parenting aspect. Oh, hi bud. This is the eldest boy. Do you want to come say This is Breath. Here, buddy, put these on.

[17:01] Damianne President: Hi, Breath. How are you? Yah! What have you been doing? Were you playing? Mm-hmm.

[17:09] Blase Grinner: Gentle. Gentle. Yeah. So Daddy’s gonna finish the podcast and come and play.

He just highlighted another thing. So he yelled really loud, and rather than saying stop loud, um, like, hey buddy, gentle, so telling him what we want him to do rather than dismissing what he is doing. That’s been super challenging because I catch myself going back into how I got parented and this unconscious, habitual thing. So parenthood is the biggest personal development journey.

[17:42] The most important resource in fatherhood and relationships for men

[17:42] Blase Grinner: Um, parenthood and the resources. For men, what I have found personally, the biggest resource that I have is men’s work, which is like life coaching or personal development where there’s no women involved. It is just purely, only men, and being able to talk openly about my fears, insecurities, challenges that I have within all of my life.

But the two biggest things I ever talk about is fatherhood and relationships, and asking for advice in that. Because I feel there’s always constant learning and growing, especially with our plans to get married in six weeks. We’ve been together seven years, so it’s fairly new and we have three children and we consciously chose it this way. And we’re in business together. At the moment, my partner’s not working. 

And so the stresses and pressures of what I’m experiencing as a man, as a father, as a future husband, super challenging. And I definitely one hundred percent know that if I didn’t have men’s teams and men to support me and hold me through all these challenges, I wouldn’t be in this position. We wouldn’t be together. 

And so yes, there’s these books out there, but also just talking to other men, men that are further on the journey and men that are willing to help and support; that’s been my biggest thing. I found men’s work seven years ago, and there’s only been three weeks outta those seven years that I have not, sorry, six years ago.

There’s only been three weeks in the past six years that haven’t been involved in a men’s team. So I feel for me personally, that’s the biggest resource I’ve ever got, the biggest thing just to know that I’m held, know that I’m safe, men that I can rely on with everything.

[19:26] Eldership is Necessary

[19:26] Damianne President: Actually you mentioned that one thing that you’re excited about right now is eldership. What does that mean, eldership? It sounds kind of related to what you’re talking about now.

[19:37] Blase Grinner: Yeah. So for me, the word elder should be very tribal. And so if we go back into tribal, indigenous cultures, a tribe raised the young. So it wasn’t just the biological parents, it was uncles, aunties, chiefs, and the village, the tribe would raise young. Whereas now, this bigger, better, faster, stronger generation, there’s not many tribes left. There’s just two parents, sometimes only one parent trying to raise kids without too much support systems. And it’s super challenging. 

And what I’m noticing with the work that I do is that eldership is almost lost. I believe that elders used to pass on their knowledge and their wisdom. That respect for elders is starting to diminish. I’m just noticing there’s so many people that are so wise that have so much knowledge that can help so many people don’t wanna pass it on. And that’s the big thing. It’s like, why not? 

Like, especially in these indigenous cultures, there’s so much beauty and wisdom of their way of life. I really believe that eldership is super important, that respecting and honoring lineages and our elders and helping and passing on wisdom is super needed. It’s how the tribes work together, and I think that’s what humanity needs, right now.

[21:05] Damianne President: So how do we get some of that back?

[21:07] Blase Grinner: I think curiosity because I really believe that it’s just around education. So I, um, be a bit vulnerable now that I grew up racist. So, in Australia, I’m a white man, and then native people of Australian, indigenous people are aboriginals. And the town I grew up, we would like fight the black fellas. That’s what I grew up with, the people I surrounded with, just the proximity. That was my mentality. Then I moved here, the Sunshine Coast and then started getting different elders in my life that were more conscious. I was able to break through the belief systems that were around where I grew up and then started to get educated about what really happened when Mike Wayne came to Australia.

I was able to hear not just what I learned at school and the history books, but what was really going on. And so through that education, I was able to make my own different belief systems. And now I have so many Aboriginal indigenous friends, it’s beautiful. But I think that education, like not believing everything, like educating ourselves and being curious is definitely one.

Another thing is I think that something needs to shift. If we look at what happened with Covid, the lockdown and freedom got taken away and was forced. That isn’t a tribal way, that’s not an indigenous way, force. And so nature doesn’t live by force. There is no rush with nature. She’s always on time. 

And so I feel also the indigenous tribes, I think they’re through line of all indigenous tribes to have a connection to country or land, and they have a connection to spirit. And so how can we introduce connection to mother Earth or reverence to that, or respect to that. 

I think making men’s work, making that accessible for men. So back in those tribal days, men had council, they would go on rites of passages. They would sit in circle around fires and pass wisdom on and talk. It was normal. It was like an actual way of life. Now we’re having to redefine that, that it’s okay for men to speak up. It’s okay for men to have emotions.

 There’s not many rites of passages that men can go through. Like when does a man become a man in this culture right now? When he loses his virginity or gets married? Where’s that marker? There is none. That’s why men are so lost right now. Literally why I do the work that I do is to give men those reference points within themselves.

And so I think another answer to your question is to make accessible the work that’s available for men, the support that’s available for men. There’s support that’s available for women. There’s a lot of sister sort of circles, that kind of stuff because there’s so much goodness from those people and the way they lived.

[24:12] Damianne President: Are you looking for a community where you can learn more about change and about building the life that you want? Join the Facebook community from the link in the show notes.

[24:26] Helping men live their purpose

[24:26] Damianne President: Tell us about your work. What is it that you do with and for men?

[24:31] Blase Grinner: In short, take men on the longest journey of their life, which is out of their head and then into their heart. And so another way of saying that is that armor that we wear in front of our hearts and all those times that we felt pain and being judged and put down, just keep putting this armor in front of us and this is why we’re not bearing our emotions or speaking our truth.

And really believe at the moment, we’re in a generation of people pleasers, that men are doing everything for everyone else other than themself is why men are so miserable. So I help men with that, taking off those people pleasing masks, laying down their armour, discovering their purpose. Like what’s their purpose? 

The definition of purpose is their reason to exist. So helping men understand they are here for a reason. If a man knows that he’s here for a reason, he’s gonna get outta bed every day and want to live that rather than just going through the cycles with grand whole days.

So that’s the work I do in many different aspects. So we’ve got membership programs, like weekly membership programs. We actually run three day rites of passages like a modern day men’s rite of passage. So we take men through those protocols; they come on a Friday. They disconnect from society so we cut their phones off so they don’t talk to anyone other than the people on this journey.

Then we go into the bush for three days and they go through 32 processes. And then the third stage of the rights of passage was the community or celebration. So we get all of the families out, all of the children, the moms and dads, and we do a massive big honor ceremony celebration to honor these men back into their everyday life.

And then for the next three weeks, we support them on that journey through live coaching and helping them integrate everything they’ve learned about themselves into their family life, into their business, into whatever it is that is their purpose and their direction in life.

[26:23] Damianne President: And what are some of the main changes you notice within those three days and then three weeks that follow?

[26:32] Blase Grinner: The biggest thing is that men start to trust men again, because men have hurt men so badly that men don’t trust each other. They don’t trust themselves, but they don’t trust each other. And so because of that, they don’t get vulnerable. They don’t talk about their emotions, they don’t talk about their fears, but men are walking around like the weight, the world’s on their shoulders, and they’re doing it alone.

 So we take them through processes to be able to feel that, release it, let it all out. So some, some of the biggest things if men have a healthy place to like really let some anger out and let go of it. There’s a lot of angry men. 

Bowel cancer is the biggest killer of men across the planet, and bowel is down in this lower chakra, like we’re in that sacral region and that’s where anger is stored. And then bowel cancer’s the biggest killer of men. And it’s like, why? Because men dunno how to release it. They’ve never been taught as young boys, Hey, there is a way to get rid of this in such a way that you’re not gonna hurt the people that you love.

 Another thing, a really big takeaway that men come with is direction. There’s a lot of men walking around like Jacks Sparrow’s; they’re just aimlessly walking around day to day, not sure who they are, dunno where they’re going. So we help them find their direction, find their North star.

And like I mentioned, I hated getting told how to do that as a kid, like you gotta do like this. So we provide men the parameters and the thing to find that for themselves. So we’re all individuals. 

The other one is majority of men that come in our vortex become unapologetically themselves. And so that’s the opposite of the people pleaser. And so they’re confident within themselves. They learn how to say probably the hardest word of their life, which is no, how to set boundaries. There’s a lot of yes men. And so they say yes to their bosses, yes to their mum and dad, yes to their partner when deep down, they just want to say no, and they just didn’t know how to do that. 

So yeah, we teach them how to learn what is their value system. Every human has a unique value system. How to unlock that so they can actually consciously live from their value system rather than unconsciously. Cause everyone judges and perceives the world pertaining to the value system.

 And then, yeah, just a lot of stuff around relationships and intimacy. we. Work so hard as men to provide for our family, but that’s at a cost or consequences. So many men, they want time back. Everyone’s trying to get more time because they’re realizing, especially when Covid hit, it’s like, Man, what am I working for? There’s important things that are still in the house, my family, so that intimacy and connection with their partner and the presence with their kids.

So they’re not the grumpy dad anymore. They’re actually connected dad. Hence why I said from the heads to the heart. Cause that’s what’s required of us man at the moment, is to be a man, to lead from our heart. That’s what we require for ourselves, what our partners require, what our children require. What the world needs is heart centered men, not men that are just people pleasing and yes men. So yeah, that’s a few things that we help men with. 

[29:40] Being a heart centered man

[29:40] Damianne President: So what does it mean to be heart centered for a man? Well, for anyone but heart centered man versus a head centered man. 

[29:47] Blase Grinner: The head, the ego, the mind, it’s like there’s so much fear up here. There’s so many stories, so many assumptions, and 99% of those stories aren’t real. And this thing here just beats men up relentlessly. This isn’t just men now, men and women, but the mind is like if we verbalize that outwards and spoke to someone like that, so many people would stop us. But this thing, it’s vicious unless we like build a relationship with it.

And so, coming from that heart centered space, a bit more soft, a bit more gentle, bit more courageous, a little bit more meaningful, intentional, um, having gratitude coming from that place. When we’re all in the mind, it’s very logical, rigid, serious, fearful. The mind talks us out of so many things, fear of what other people are gonna think. But it’s finding that beautiful balance too. 

So we don’t wanna be too heart centered. That’s been also my thing, very emotional and reactive. So there’s a sweet spot. This is where my tattoo is from, is that in between that head and heart, so that place of analytical, logical plus emotional, but it’s from both those places. I think that’s the sweet spot.

[31:01] Why it’s important to put the relationship first

[31:01] Damianne President: Earlier you mentioned that you think that the relationship with your wife comes first. In a lot of conversations with people, it’s the opposite, where it’s the children first and sometimes the relationship between the parents is sacrificed or secondary. How do you think about that in terms of your option of putting the relationship first? What does that do for the family?

[31:28] Blase Grinner: Yeah. I also wanna say there’s another relationship above that. That’s a relationship with myself or the individual first. I’m 37 and that relationship only started about six years ago. I was a really big people pleaser. So the relationship with myself was first and then, well, our belief is that we’re two individuals coming together to co-create a life and that’s our big thing.

A lot of relationships, people lose themselves in the relationship and lose that individuality. We have a really strong viewpoint there we’re two individuals, that we get to be that individual. 

Why it’s so important for the relationship to come first is cuz it is that union, and I know there’s so many different relationships about that; I’m just talking about a committed relationship right now.

Long term, committed relationship is that union that is gonna be raising the children, and that union is what brought those children into this existence. And so what happens if the children go first? The need, the desires and the wants of each individual doesn’t get met. And so it’s when that resentment keeps coming in. Then it just keeps building, building, building. That relationship goes further and further, further away. And so then that separation in the relationship then is gonna filter through and the children pick up on that.

 Our children sense when we are not tight. We can see how emotional they are just because that relationship isn’t there. It just seemed really counterintuitive. I remember when someone first said that to me, like, what do you mean choose the partner of the children. And the other thing of this too, this is something that is there.

I’m choosing to marry my fiance, and so I’m choosing to be with her as my choice. And that means I choose her over any of my family members. Also, I back my wife. That’s an interesting story too, making sure she’s number one.

[33:31] Damianne President: That’s also not necessarily the default, right? My last interview was exactly about this topic around in-laws and the extended family and how often when there are disagreements, one partner gets caught in the middle, and sometimes can choose family or mom. Mother-in-law was the actual issue in this case, and that slowly chips away at the relationship.

[33:58] Blase Grinner: Yep. 100%. Because in a relationship, we want to feel chosen. And there’s so many men that are walking around that haven’t broken up with their parents, that mom and dad are still got, that they’re still a little boy, but they’re a grown ass man. So they hadn’t claimed back their manhood from their mum and their dad. That was some of the scariest shit I’ve ever had to do in my life. So, no mum, you don’t get to do that anymore. This is my life. Oh man. But it was needed. 

And that’s why I feel what it is like to be unapologetically myself, being a man, being able to stand on his own two feet, being sovereign for himself, to know his direction, to know who he is. And then from that place, he’s choosing his partner. And then if there is that conflict, it’s like, No, mum, whatever it is, I’m with her. Even if you don’t agree, then it comes down to those really uncomfortable conversations, those boundaries and values.

[34:57] Conscious agreements in relationships

[34:57] Damianne President: That’s what it comes back to, the whole idea of values and being very clear about those.

[35:03] Blase Grinner: Yeah, So we call them in our relationship conscious agreements. I crossed a conscious agreement that we made four years ago about three weeks ago, and it was a big one. It rocked a lot of people and I own that. Though I don’t wanna have that agreement anymore, did it in a very unconscious manner. I didn’t realize it until I crossed it, but the ownership of it was like, Oh, I actually crossed that. That’s why there’s a lot of feedback coming back from my partner because I crossed something.

But then it has been a really beautiful opportunity to renegotiate that agreement within our relationship. Because it doesn’t serve where we want to go for our family vision and the family wanna raise. But yeah, that communication is key. And just reevaluating a lot of the stuff, just knowing what the non-negotiables are.

 For me as a man, one of the biggest struggles I’ve had with some of the conscious agreements or the non-negotiables is judging them. But my partner also, women want to feel safe. And so if I’m judging this agreement of like, she shouldn’t be thinking like that, it’s like, man, I’m not honoring her values, her belief. I’m putting my judgment upon that. So that’s been a lot of my work lately too around acceptance and not judging.

[36:17] Communication in families

[36:17] Damianne President: You mentioned the importance of communication. What does the communication look like within the family with the children? Your children are, are quite young, but still.

[36:25] Blase Grinner: Yeah. 4, 2, 1. Yep.

[36:27] Damianne President: One thing that I’ve been talking about with people and I’ve noticed is that the habits that you start putting in place are so important because you put in processes that kind of grow with the family or grow with you. So what are some of those things? 

[36:42] Blase Grinner: Well one that we learned is repetition with young kids. One example is the young fellow who just came in, Breath, would always interrupt the conversation. As an adult it’s like, Hey buddy, if mummy and daddy are talking, come put your hand on us and then you just stand there. But I’ll put my hand on and that lets you know that I hear you, that I see you. And when daddy finishes talking, I’ll come back to you. And he just wouldn’t get it. And then they remind us, he’s just four, but he will. Just keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going.

And the day he just came up and he did it, I was just like, Oh my God, The effort. It was a couple of months but he’s oh man. And so he’s, he’s got it now. It just took that repetition, the communication from my partner, like let’s get going. Let’s keep going, we got it.

So that repetition, just don’t give up because they are learning. And they watch everything. They watch everything. Kids like, man, they’re super switched on. I’ve gotta give ’em way more credit cuz they are playing, but they’re listening. They’re hearing everything.

A big thing for us is, um, I actually did a peyote ceremony about three and a half years ago. And through that process I really found this really beautiful place within myself, that I wanted to pray. 

And so I grew up in a Catholic school and the religion agenda down my throat, so I had a really filtered view of the Catholic church. I don’t dismiss it, but for me it just didn’t feel right cause it was forced upon me. And so the word prayer was really jacked up. And I used to go to friends places and they would pray. I’d do it with them and like people would, um pay me out because of it.

But yeah, through this peyote and being a man, I like said to my partner afterwards, like, I’d like to introduce prayer around the food especially cuz we eat meat. I definitely know that meat isn’t from the supermarket. And so that’s something we introduced at a really young age.

Every night I sit there and lead a prayer and say thank you for the food. And now we’re in the position that the eldest boy, Breath, what do you wanna say thank you for? And so he started. 

I remember one time he said, I wanna say thank you to the horse that made the gravy. So he’s trying to articulate what animal made the gravy. Now he’s saying, thank you for the rain, thank you for the sunshine. Thank you for the comfy bed. 

He’s only four. He looked in the eyes about two months ago and he’s like, daddy, thank you for my life. And this is something that I wanna tell my biological father. And I’ve been hanging for 18 months to see him face to face to tell him that and he won’t catch up with me. And then my four year old boy said it to me and, Oh, it hit me. 

And that was a reminder, because I always like most days, in that prayer, say, thank you for our life. Thank you for this gift that we have. Thank you for everything that’s coming our way and always prays in the future as well. But He’s picked up on that so that’s his new normal. That’s his normal to be grateful to live in a sense of gratitude. 

Now that other little boy, he’s now two. That’s a really good dynamic because now he’s learning faster on all of these things that it was with Breath because he’s seen his brother do it, not me trying to teach him cause I’m telling him what to do. What’s his brother doing, he’s trying to copy. So that’s been really cool. 

Another thing that we teach is like emotional regulation. And so, we teach our kids breath work. Any time I say, Hey buddy, let’s slow down, let’s do some breathing. And so we’ll stop and we’ll get on the level and we’ll breathe with them. 

The other thing too is trying to also continually do our routine and the kids be around it rather than go away. So in my morning, I’ll do some stretches and breathing and I’ll let them climb all over me, but they’re witnessing me doing what I’m teaching them as well. So bringing them into our vortex. We’ve got a gym in our house, so if we’re training, they’re in there. So they’re just really involved with life rather than separating as well. It’s how we’re raising our children. 

[40:46] Damianne President: As our time is winding down, do you have an invitation for listeners, either something for any men who are listening or for their partners or both?

Invitation/Challenge

[40:56] Blase Grinner: If any man listening like where I was seven years ago just would like some help or a chat, just reach out. Send me a message on Messenger, like just send a thumbs up. There’s this thing too, I put a post up the other day, I was like, if you don’t know what to say, just send a thumbs up. And I’ll just like, Hey, how are you, and start the conversation that way. 

Seven years ago, especially, I was becoming a father. I was super nervous. super scared, but I was actually confident enough to talk about that, but I didn’t have anyone in my life to talk about it with. That’s literally why I created a men’s circle here in my local town. It was called Dads and Dad’s to be. 

It was like, Hey, how do you do this fatherhood thing? What am I gonna look out for? There’s pressure I’m feeling around money, like, what’s going on there? So there’s the olive branch there.

The other one is if you’re a man and you don’t have men in your life to support you, get that. Find a men’s circle. Find a men’s team. Find a men’s group. Be the most beneficial thing you can ever do.

Um, And for the ladies out there, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for bearing children. Thank you for bearing life. It wasn’t until I actually saw my wife or future wife bear our children, sacrifice her body, her career, and give so much and just complete surrender again, again, and again and again that I really got the depth of the feminine and what you ladies do so that we men can be fathers. So yeah, to the ladies, just wanna say thank you.

[42:24] Damianne President: Is there anything else you wanna make sure listeners get from this conversation?

[42:29] Blase Grinner: You’re exactly where you need to be. Exactly where you are now. Exactly where you need to be.