Mindful Technology Use: How to Avoid Burnout and Find Joy with Michelle Dickinson

[00:00] Michelle Dickinson: The crowding out philosophy is really about filling your mind with things that you know is going to help you feel good. What feels good, like the animals, like you just mentioned, like watching little baby kittens and baby puppies, right? 
[00:13] Damianne President: Thank you for listening to this episode of Changes Big and Small. I’m Damian President, your host, as we explore small steps that help you make big changes to build a life that you want. 
[00:27] Meet Michelle E Dickinson
[00:27] Damianne President: Today’s guest is Michelle e Dickinson. Michelle is flipping the script on stress management. As a TED speaker and bestselling author, she’s taught over 15,000 people across education, fortune five, hundreds, and healthcare how to actually deal with burnout, not just talk about it. Michelle doesn’t do typical coaching. She teaches practical skills that work right away like getting a user manual for your brain. Her clients see results fast. 30% less stress within three sessions and 50 to 70% reduction. In just six to seven sessions, she gives people real tools they can use immediately at work, at home, anywhere. Her clients don’t just cope better with stress. They completely change how they handle life’s challenges. What makes her different? She flips fluffy self-talk and gets straight to what works.  
[01:17] Damianne President: Welcome to change big and small, Michelle. 
[01:20] Michelle Dickinson: Ah, thank you.
[01:21] Thanks for having me.
[01:22] Damianne President: Thanks Michelle. What do you mean when you talk about being a resilience visionary? What does that mean to you? 
[01:28] Michelle Dickinson: A resilience visionary, I believe is someone who believes that resilience as a lifestyle is a possibility, and leads people to that possibility.
[01:40] Damianne President: So tell me a little bit more about that. When we think about resilience, what does it look like on a day-to-day basis?
[01:47] Michelle Dickinson: Yeah, I think a lot of people relate to resilience as the thing that they will only gain through extreme challenge and clawing their way back from a dark place. 
[01:57] We view resilience more of a lifestyle approach in that every single day, what we do and how we think can help us foster resilience, so we are able to ebb and flow with the adversity that life throws at us.
[02:16] Damianne President: That resonates with me. I actually think that people can do different habits and have rituals every day to develop their resilience. So it’s great to hear you talk from that perspective. 
[02:29] Resilience and Burnout
[02:29] Damianne President: And so you are a resilience visionary, and burnout interventionist. How are the two things related, resilience and burnout? 
[02:36] Michelle Dickinson: Yeah. If we are every day building our resilience and taking good care of ourselves, we are able to circumvent hitting that burnout, that dark place. 
[02:49] So when I say I’m a burnout interventionist, what I’m doing is helping people return to themselves before they hit burnout. A lot of people come to me on the brink of burnout or thinking they are headed in that direction, and when I intervene with them, we’re simply taking a hard look at what they’re doing and how they’re thinking.
[03:13] Damianne President: How can somebody know that they should be talking to you? What are the signs before they’re in deep trouble with burnout?
[03:21] Michelle Dickinson: A lot of folks come to me when they’re starting to just feel like they don’t have control. They’re literally just at the effects of their life. They feel like they’re on a hamster wheel, they can’t catch their breath. There’s a lot of requests placed on them from their personal and their professional lives.
[03:40] Most of them are like, if I just keep going at this rate, it is inevitable that I will burn out.
[03:47] Defining burnout 
[03:47] Damianne President: I hear people use the term burnout a lot, actually. And is there a specific definition that you use when you think about burnout, when you talk about burnout?
[03:56] Michelle Dickinson: Yeah. When I reflect back, even on my own burnout, the moments when I was in my corporate job was really the loss of joy. I think when we start to not do and look forward to the things, the fundamental things that bring us joy, that’s when we know that we’re tapped out. Because at least if you have things that you love and things that you can indulge in to temporarily step away from responsibility, that can recharge us. But if there’s no desire for that, then there’s probably a bigger exhaustion, a mental exhaustion, a physical exhaustion that has to really be looked at.
[04:36] Damianne President: I’ve been thinking about this because it comes up a lot in conversations with people. I’m feeling burnt out, or I’m very busy, or I’m exhausted all the time. Those are some of the words or the phrases that come up. And one of the things that we talk about, or that I’ve talked about with them is about technology, and what is the role of technology in all of this. What’s your experience with that? How does technology play into this factor of burnout and those different elements?
[05:04] Michelle Dickinson: It’s it’s one of those things. It’s a necessary evil. It’s an amazing convenience. We have so much at our fingertips that helps us be efficient, effective, feel very connected, yet disconnected. A lot of people say that’s the truth. I think the problem becomes when we are so addicted to the dopamine hits that we’re getting from the technology that we don’t realize we need to step away and limit that. But the problem is we feel this desire to be connected for that dopamine hit. And so my invitation is always, how else could you get a dopamine hit? It doesn’t have to be through the connection on your phone, the likes, the comments and things of that nature. There are other ways to get a dopamine hit. It could just be as simple as keeping your word to your healthy habits.
[05:57] Having those small wins where you feel a sense of accomplishment, there’s a dopamine hit that can come from that. But the problem is it’s very easy to just pick up our phone and get a dopamine hit and then we’re addicted, and then we have no boundaries and no distance between the technology and the connection with ourselves.
[06:16] So I always say, when there’s something separating you from yourself, you have to take a step back and look at what’s separating you from yourself, because that’s really where the greatest answers come from, is in the calmness and solitude of just being with ourselves free of distraction and external noise.
[06:35] Damianne President: There’s being with yourself and then there’s also being with yourself in context with relationships with other people. How do you see that play out? 
[06:43] Michelle Dickinson: Yeah, I don’t see it as either or. I see it as both. Some of the work that I share with my clients is the power of just being able to be present with yourself. We cannot be present with the people we love if we don’t know how to be present with just ourselves, minus all the distractions and the noise from the external world.
[07:03] In meditation, for example, you connect to yourself. You connect to what you need, you start to understand who you are, right? That sets us up to be able to be better connected with the ones that we love. As human beings, we’re creatures of connection. We need connection with those people around us. So I always say that it’s very important to maintain those connections if they’re healthy, of course, if they’re not toxic, that’s the caveat.
[07:30] But yeah, we need it all. We need self connection and we need connection to the people that we love and who love us.
[07:37] Technology and Wellbeing
[07:37] Damianne President: When we think about the role of technology, are there specific habits or specific uses that are more damaging and other ones that actually help enhance wellbeing?
[07:47] Michelle Dickinson: Yeah, for sure. Having those limitations on the amount of hours you’re spending on social media, making sure that you give yourself time before sleep to step away from technology. That’s one of the biggest things. I have so many clients that like scroll on their phone until the moment that they wanna fall asleep and we know how important sleep is for feeling our best, right?
[08:10] When people say they’re tired, a lot of times it’s because they’ve neglected the fundamentals of what they need, and sleep is one of them. So technology can interfere with that. So it’s creating some healthy habits that create distance between the technology.
[08:26] I have people who refuse to allow their phone in their bedroom. They leave it out of the bedroom and charging at night away from them. Get an old fashioned alarm clock. Just take that pause. I’m a big fan of social media detoxes, taking a week away from social media. That subliminal comparison, the constant noise of other people’s lives showing up that you look at constantly evaluating your own life, that happens whether or not you are conscious of it. So we have to create those boundaries. Detoxes are good. Turning off your phone at certain points before rest, getting enough rest. 
[09:06] Damianne President: Yeah. And I don’t think technology is going anywhere. Definitely, there is room to figure out some more balance. I’m not a big fan of the word balance, but for me, it’s more about what works for you and what doesn’t work for you. Where can you be intentional with the things that you’re doing.
[09:23] Michelle Dickinson: Where’s your healthy boundaries, right? That’s up to you. And I think that you could measure, you could say to yourself, how do I feel when I go into the technology? And then how do I feel after?
[09:33] Sometimes it’s necessary for our work, but you can start to evaluate, this is the magic of self-awareness. You can start to evaluate, like I was on Instagram for 45 minutes. I’m getting off and I feel like crap. What was the point of that 45 minutes.
[09:46] Damianne President: It’s the self-awareness that’s gonna help you create more of those healthy boundaries. 
[09:51] I would like to go a little bit more into the kinds of things people do on technology as well, because I think there are big differences in the kinds of things that we can do and the experience we have of them, and the effect they have on us as well.
[10:03] Damianne President: And for example, we’ve talked a bit about social media and definitely we know if you’re caught in this comparison trap, that is often unhealthy for your mental health. And there are other people who use social media in quite creative ways and they find that to be helpful to themselves. Or even like some of the research shows that watching videos of animals and that kind of thing is part of building resilience.
[10:28] So what are some healthier habits people can develop with their technology, rather than like just banishing it away? There are ways we could use it in a more healthy way too.
[10:39] Michelle Dickinson: Yeah, so you definitely wanna step away from doom scrolling. It’s hard though with apps like TikTok and Instagram and reels. You could go down a rabbit hole, but what I like to recommend for folks to consider is the crowding out process. So often, our minds want to think about our problems and dwell on our problems.
[11:00] So the one thing I’m always saying to folks is, it’s not wrong that our mind does that. It’s part of fight or flight, like it’s gonna do that. It’s gonna wanna look for problems, but then I say create a pattern interrupt and using technology to help you do that is a great way. 
[11:16] So the crowding out philosophy is really about filling your mind with things that you know is going to help you feel good. What feels good, like the animals, like you just mentioned, like watching little baby kittens and baby puppies, right? That feels good to watch that I am a fan of short videos or audio books or podcasts that are uplifting, that are gonna give you positive reminders, things that maybe isn’t front of mind that you could benefit from having front of mind. Oh my goodness, like I really should be thinking more about the creative dreams I have, or something that’s gonna inspire you and literally fill your mind with good feeling thoughts or curious thoughts that have you focusing forward and not staring at the wall of disappointment or frustration or dwelling on financial concerns, dwelling on unhappy relationships. You wanna get yourself into feeling as good as possible. And technology’s a great way to do that through YouTube. There’s a lot of great videos, uplifting videos by folks. And it’s also who you follow on social, right? You can set the algorithm that you started looking up, things like Dr. Wayne Dyer or Michael Bernard Beckwith. Then that’s stuff’s gonna start showing up in your feed and giving you positive messaging.
[12:37] Damianne President: Yeah, that’s definitely true,
[12:40] Invitation/Challenge
[12:40] Damianne President: Michelle. If somebody is listening and they’re like, where do I start? I have so many of these habits with my phone that I don’t even know where to start making a change. What’s an invitation that you could have for them that could help?
[12:53] Michelle Dickinson: Yeah. Create a little bit of distance from technology. Give yourself a break to just be with yourself, whether it’s like, in the evening you wanna give yourself an hour of technology free time, because you wanna do the thing that you love to do.
[13:11] Create a little bit of technology free time, and you can start with 30 minutes. You can go to an hour, you can make it a rule that your phone’s not in bed with you. Start small and then recognize how you feel. That’s the barometer. I can make recommendations all day long but only you are gonna notice if there’s a change in how you feel and that’s going to help you determine if that’s what you wanna do. You wanna do more of that. 
 
[13:38] Damianne President: Let’s pause for a moment and reflect. How does technology show up in your life? Do you feel energized or drained after spending time on your devices? Take a mental inventory. What apps or habits bring you joy and connection, and which ones leave you feeling overwhelmed or stuck in comparison? This is an important step because awareness is the first part of change.
[14:04] You don’t have to know the answers right now. The goal is to notice and realize which activities are bringing you joy, and which activities on your technology are contributing to you feeling more tired or taking away your energy. 
[14:23] Perspective on Joy
[14:23] Damianne President: I’m making a slight change here, but tell me what you think about joy. What’s your perspective on joy?
[14:29] Michelle Dickinson: I love that. Joy is like the thing that I think a lot of people feel is so far out of reach, but through simple things things, you can reclaim the joy. I mentioned before the crowding out process. If the mind is wired to protect you, it’s not wired to make you happy, so being joyful isn’t automatically gonna happen.
[14:54] I always think about, okay, what would bring me joy would be getting right in front of me the things that are good, like what’s gratitude, what’s appreciation? You can feel joy by simply redirecting your focus to things that you appreciate, things that you are grateful for, like the joy of my puppy waking up in bed with me, focusing on that instead of what he did to irritate me. 
[15:22] Whatever you focus on will always expand. So that’s the key. If you wanna feel good and you wanna feel and experience joy, you have full control over what you focus on. So focus on those things that feel good when you think about them. 
[15:39] \
[15:39] Joy in resilience
[15:39] Damianne President: Yeah. And we talked about the fact that burnout means you can’t access joy. What about resilience? How does resilience relate with joy?
[15:49] Michelle Dickinson: Yeah, I think, when we learn how to ebb and flow with adversity and stress, it’s gonna be a lot easier to maintain your experience of joy. I always say how we view adversity and stress, the two things we know are coming no matter what. We can’t say hold the stress, hold the challenges.
[16:09] If we know they’re coming and we can shift our perspective about them, then we won’t feel like the victim. We’ll feel like, okay, this is here for me. I’m going to take a curious approach to it and not immediately say, why me? So if you can have a healthy curiosity to all of the events that show up in your life, you’ll be less distant from the concept of joy.
[16:37] Damianne President: No, I like that word too, curiosity, because to me that is such an open concept when you’re being curious. It’s let’s see what happens and that’s, a very fun way to explore.
[16:48] Is there anything that you find people get surprised about when you talk about resilience? I. 
[16:54] Michelle Dickinson: I think the average person thinks that life has to beat them down in order for them to realize the resilience. And I say it’s through pushing yourself and doing things that you didn’t think you could do, that you get to reveal your own resilience. Like we all have resilience and we have the access to challenge ourself to realize our own strength and resilience.
[17:26] So like I use the example of exercise, right? Some people might be like, I can’t do that. But if you challenged yourself to do that, you would realize your true capacity. And in that you’ll see, wow, I’m resilient, like I just did that and look at me. So, I think, it’s not about waiting for something to come along and, have you say I’m resilient. It’s challenging yourself to show up for yourself, and in the process you are revealing your own inner resilience.
[17:57] Damianne President: Yeah, I really like that. I have a previous episode that I’ll also add in the show notes for folks because I think there are different types of resilience too, like physical resilience or emotional resilience. And the things that we do every day, if I exercise every day, I am building my physical resilience. If I fall, maybe I can catch myself if I have certain skills that I’ve built over time.
[18:20] I’m a big fan of the growth mindset too, and I really want to invite listeners to think about the things that they can do every day to build resilience. And like you said, not just wait until they find themselves in a difficult situation. 
[18:35] Yeah.
[18:35] Michelle Dickinson: You know, I’ve coached over 5,000 hours of folks in the resilience space. The one thing I’ve learned that has shown up the most, but yet we are able to shift that I’ve seen the greatest impact when they shifted it, was simply how they start their day.
[18:52] So many people aren’t getting good sleep. They’re starting their day off very high cortisol, stressful experience instead of creating a small amount of time just for them to be intentional and create the cadence for how the day is gonna go. 
[19:11] So many people hit snooze. They catapult outta bed. They’re at the effects of life. Then they’re automatically in the stress zone. I say, get up 10 minutes earlier, sit down, have a cup of coffee or tea. Set some intentions for yourself. Maybe say a prayer. Just do something for you that fills your cup and you are setting the tone for how your day is gonna unfold.
[19:35] Damianne President: I’m a big fan of that. I know this is going to divide the audience, but I do not snooze. I have an alarm, but my alarm means get out of bed now. My intention is to already be awake.
[19:45] Sometimes I’m awake and alert enough that I’m reflecting, I’m just being quiet. And then when my alarm goes off, it’s okay, it’s time to get out of bed and start the day. And sometimes that get out of bed doesn’t necessarily mean put my feet on the ground. It means like I’m awake now, like I’m mentally awake, whatever it is that I’m 
[20:05] Damianne President: going.
[20:05] And 
[20:06] Damianne President: I think it’s a very interesting thing to test. Like for listeners, what if you did not hit snooze five times? What if you hit snooze just one less time than usual? How could you experience some time for yourself in the morning? 
[20:19] Michelle Dickinson: But I think that goes back to, did you get enough sleep so that you’re not exhausted when that alarm goes off?
[20:26] So many people tell me, oh, Michelle, I’m good on five hours of sleep, and I just challenge them, and I’m like, you don’t know what you don’t know. Try giving yourself eight hours of sleep and notice how different you feel.
[20:36] So it really does go back to the discipline with getting enough rest, so you have the ability to pop outta bed when the alarm goes off, no hesitation because you feel good. 
[20:47] Damianne President: Yeah. And I think there’s also sometimes when it’s a habitual thing where we’ve bought into the idea that, oh, snooze allows me to get a bit more sleep. And I really challenge that too, because I’m like, are you getting sleep that matters in those 10 
 
[21:02] Let’s take a short break from the interview to go through three quick tips you can try today to build your digital resilience. The first one is to turn off non-essential notifications. You can do that on your phone first and only allow alerts from people or apps that truly matter to you.
[21:22] This simple step can drastically reduce distractions. Two, set a tech free zone. You could choose one space in your home where devices are off limits, like maybe it’s the dining room or your bedroom. This creates boundaries that protect your joy and presence in real life moments. And the third one is to schedule screen free breaks.
[21:48] For example, you could block out 15 minutes every few hours where you step away from screens entirely. This could mean going for a walk, stretching, or just breathing. Personally, I like to take a Zumba break, or sometimes I just walk up and down the stairs. This is a quick wrap up of many of the ideas that Michelle shared as well. 
[22:10] Lightning Round [22:10] Damianne President: Michelle. I want to end with a lightning round. It’s just three questions. I asked you a bit about joy and how you define joy. I want to know how does joy feel to you?  [22:21] Michelle Dickinson: Ooh. How does joy feel? Contentment, peace. calmness, all of that.
[22:29] Damianne President: What is something bringing you joy right now?
[22:32] Michelle Dickinson: My business the possibilities we’re creating to reach more people, that gets me so excited. Spending time with people I love. Yeah, those things,
[22:44] Damianne President: And do you have a book recommendation for listeners? It can be anything at all. It
[22:48] doesn’t have to be related to our topic, 
[22:50] Michelle Dickinson: own
[22:51] book. So if you were, if you grew up with, or you were affected by a loved one with a mental illness, my memoir, I have to suggest, it’s called Breaking into My Life and it’s all about what my experience was growing up with my mother who is bipolar and the silver lining that is always within the adversity that now serves me as an adult.
[23:13] Damianne President: And you have a TED talk on that topic as well, right? which I’ll also add to the show notes. 
[23:18] Michelle Dickinson: I do.
[23:18] Thank you.
[23:19] Damianne President: Michelle. Where can people find you and how can they support you or get involved with your work?
[23:24] Michelle Dickinson: Oh, amazing. Yeah , my second home is on LinkedIn, so Michelle e Dickinson and then our website, resilience as a lifestyle.com.
[23:34] Damianne President: Excellent. And all of those things will be in the show notes. So thank you very much, Michelle.
[23:40] Michelle Dickinson: Oh, 
[23:40] you’re welcome. Thank you. 
[23:45] Damianne President: Remember, technology itself is neutral. It’s how we use it that affects our joy. Being intentional with technology can be transformative. Think about it. This stage of life often comes with many opportunities for growth and discovery, but it’s easy to get caught up in digital distractions that pulls us away from what really matters.
[24:04] Think about Candy Crush Woods with friends. Even the New York Times games that I’m a big fan of. Imagine starting your mornings phone free journaling instead of scrolling or using apps like The Way or Insight Timer to focus on mindfulness rather than comparison. This means starting your day focused internally and grounding yourself rather than prioritizing something else outside of yourself first.
[24:30] These small shifts can help you reclaim your joy and make space for what truly lights you up. We talked about that in the last episode as well With Karen Light. Next week we’ll explore something that technology can enhance but never replace. And that’s the vital role of relationships and community in building a joyful life.
[24:52] Until then, I encourage you to be mindful of your digital engagement. Notice what truly serves your joy and what might be diminishing it, and I’d love to hear what you find out. You can always email me. contact@changes.com. Change begins with one small step.