Today, I’m speaking with Angela Ngan. After several years working overseas, Angela had a difficult choice. Actually, it wasn’t much of a choice. Once she found out her father was sick, she quit her job as a teacher in Prague and moved back to Toronto to support her family.
Angela is open and vulnerable in this chat. We talk about the challenge of moving back to your parents home as an adult. We also discuss the difficulty of repatriation. Angela would like to move back to Canada, so we end by thinking through some of the possible ways that she can realize this dream.
If you’ve ever dealt with illness in the family or contemplated the mortality of your parents, this conversation will resonate with you.
Timeline of the Chat
1:50 – Angela introduces herself
2:41 – What Angela likes about Prague
3:50 – Discovering biking as a passion, and the benefits
4:43 – Cycling in Japan, and experiencing nature
7:41 – The places she’s lived and worked
8:00 – Deciding to leave Prague and dealing with parental health issues
10:35 – Moving back to Canada, job hunting, and living with parents as an adult
14:46 – Changing priorities over time
16:24 – Inspiration and self-help books
18:08 – Reasons for deciding to move back overseas, to Japan
18:21 – Her father’s fight with cancer
19:33 – Spending time with her father during the two years back in Canada
20:54 – Her father’s deterioration
23:45 – Appreciating life and spending time with loved ones
24:52 – Angela considers the next step in her journey
30:04 – Angela’s advice
Transcript of the Conversation
Click to open/close the transcript
Damianne: [00:01:54] To get started. Angela, if you could tell us where were you born and what do you do that pays the bills?
Angela: [00:02:00] I was born in Toronto, Canada, and I live in Japan. I am a teacher at an international school in Kobe.
Damianne: [00:02:09] What grade level do you teach?
Angela: [00:02:10] Grade one.
Damianne: [00:02:12] When you were working in Prague, you were also teaching grade one. Is that your favorite grade or have you taught other grades as well?
Angela: [00:02:17] I’ve taught kindergarten for quite a while. And then first third grade for a year, and then the rest of the time it’s been first grade. I do like first grade because there’s a lot of growth and development, and that year there weren’t a lot of their reading and writing skills.
Damianne: [00:02:32] We knew each other when you were living in Prague, and if I recall correctly, you have quite fond memories of Prague, don’t you? What did you like about living here?
Angela: [00:02:41] I loved everything. Prague is a beautiful city. Everywhere you look, especially when you look up and all the buildings and architecture is just… I love the historical aspect of the city and being in a really old city. I loved being able to go in the countryside on the weekend and like to separate your work and your personal life and it’s like you’re traveling a different time and place. Cycling along the Vltava river and just enjoying exploring the little villages and towns. I also really liked the people I worked with in Prague. I felt like you’re a really strong community, and I found people that I connected really well with and we had sort of similar interests and sort of lifestyles. All the things that I wanted in my life at that time, I found in Prague: four seasons, great colleagues, good friends, beautiful apartment. Yeah, it was wonderful.
Damianne: [00:03:38] That’s wonderful because I guess when all of the pieces come together, it really does make a difference, doesn’t it? You mentioned you enjoyed being in the countryside. Did you, I believe you enjoy biking, is that right?
Angela: [00:03:50] Yeah. I really, really liked it. I found a friend who was also into biking, and that first year I was there, she’s like, we should stop renting bicycles. We should just buy a bicycle. I was like, uh, okay. So we bought bicycles and she’s like, well, we should just go cycling for like a week on our bikes. And I’m like, uh, okay. And we did. I loved it.
Damianne: [00:04:14] Was that your first time doing that?
Angela: [00:04:17] Oh my goodness, yes.
Damianne: [00:04:19] Oh really?
Angela: [00:04:19] Yeah, it was my first time going on that, I guess you’d call it bike touring or something where you plop your bike on a train. And you just take it wherever you … I mean, she was great with maps and things, right? I just followed her along. I guess it’s kind of become a lifelong passion kind of thing. I love being on my bike. Yeah, I love it.
Damianne: [00:04:40] Have you managed to find some of this in Japan?
Angela: [00:04:43] It’s definitely nowhere near as beautiful, the cycling there, but I cycle to work and back. Cycling is a daily part of my life, which I absolutely love and appreciate.
Damianne: [00:04:55] Have you had a chance to visit the bamboo forest in Kyoto?
Angela: [00:04:59] Yeah, it’s pretty, but just chockablock full of tourists.
Damianne: [00:05:05] I think the last time I visited there, it was, I don’t remember what time of year. It was either spring or fall, but I was there with a friend and it was a week that we had off school, but Japanese school was still in session. And so we had the place pretty much to ourselves. And this would have been about maybe eight years ago now, seven years ago, and it was incredible because I did not know how loud bamboo could be. And just hearing the sounds of the bamboo moving. I was like, what is all that noise? And then I realized, Oh, this is the noise of the place. This is the sound of the natural environment of bamboo swaying together, and it was pretty amazing.
Angela: [00:06:00] I think it would be kind of mystical and magical if I could go back there when it’s empty. Like I definitely see that. I mean, there are a lot of parts of Japan that are incredibly beautiful too. Just got to find the quiet pockets.
Damianne: [00:06:13] It’s interesting that you say that because I remember one fall I went to an area called Korankei. It’s outside of Nagoya and it’s close to Toyota. I came back and I said to my friends, wow. I just went for a drive one day and I found myself there and it had beautiful fall colors and I said, wow, we need to go back because it’s beautiful. There is a stream, we can have the picnic, and so we planned to go the next weekend. What I failed to do was check the calendar though, because the next weekend was the fall festival in Korankei. And so we get there and it is covered with people. The first challenge was to find a place to park, and then it was to find a place to walk and then find a place to sit. And I mean, it was still lovely, but it was not quite what I had sold to my friends when I asked them to go on a day trip with me. So it can be very much that way, where from one weekend to the next, one day to the next, it’s completely a different experience.
Angela: [00:07:22] Definitely.
Damianne: [00:07:24] How long have you been in Japan now?
Angela: [00:07:26] Three and a half years.
Damianne: [00:07:28] And how long did you work in Prague?
Angela: [00:07:29] Everywhere I worked except for Japan has been for four years.
Damianne: [00:07:34] And what are the different places? Since you said everywhere, I’ve got to ask, what other places did you work, in order, please.
Angela: [00:07:42] Okay. Okay. In order. Okay. So I worked in Hong Kong for four years, Singapore for four years, Prague for four years, and I’m going to be here slightly a little bit longer.
Damianne: [00:07:52] Your time in Japan has been a little bit different than some of your time in other places, right. Because for example, when you went from Prague, you actually went home for a bit.
Angela: [00:08:02] Yeah.
Damianne: [00:08:03] What brought you home.
Angela: [00:08:04] Uh, my father. He was diagnosed with lung cancer in my last year in Prague. Okay. So I knew, I was like, you have to go home now.
Damianne: [00:08:13] And so was that the deciding factor for leaving Prague or just where to go next?
Angela: [00:08:18] Oh it was for leaving Prague, definitely. l always had this [idea] that if there’s ever a health issue at home, you would go home, right? I’m like, yeah, of course. It was the strangest thing because about two weeks before he was diagnosed, I was in a car enjoying the countryside with a friend. All three of us were in her car. We were talking about losing parents and things, and death and stuff, and I was like, yeah, I know that would be so hard. And two weeks later I was like, Oh my goodness, this is how life works sometimes.
Damianne: [00:08:45] And so this was a serious diagnosis then?
Angela: [00:08:48] Yeah, at that point it all had to be confirmed, so it was stage four, which means that the cancer had spread from his lungs to other parts of his body, and there’s no kind of surgery or anything to help it. At that point, the regular doctor, not the cancer doctor. We didn’t have an oncologist yet at that point, and he said, you know, he’s got six months to a year, and all of us are like shocked, right? Luckily, after the diagnosis was confirmed and we talked to the oncologist, he said, Oh no, that’s not necessarily the case. There’s new treatments happening now. We don’t really know yet how long, but it’s probably more than six months to a year. But things like that, prognosis and things are tricky. Like they change and you never know.
Damianne: [00:09:40] Yeah. So was it just a matter of, okay, definitely if somebody gets sick, I’m going back home. What was kind of the process to make this decision or to make this change.
Angela: [00:09:51] So it was definitely, he’s sick, I have to go home. Me, myself, and I knew because my… Both my parents are immigrants and my mom, she’s a housewife and, you know, language wise and they’re getting older, hearing’s not so great for both of them. My dad is a pharmacist, so he has some kind of a medical background, ish, but they need help to sort things out and figure it all, like how to work the system and the health system, it takes effort and time and I knew that I could help them out.
Damianne: [00:10:26] At this point. How long had it been since you’d lived in Canada?
Angela: [00:10:30] 12 years.
Damianne: [00:10:31] So what was that like going back there?
Angela: [00:10:35] It was hard. It was really hard because I had lived on my own for 12 years in my own apartment, cooking my own food, taking care of myself as an adult. When I left Canada, I was still living at home during university. And so moving back to Canada, financially it made more sense for me to be living with my parents. And then I was also there for them too. So it made good sense and they were happy, thrilled to have me back, or really happy. But my mom, she kind of treated me like I was still a young teenager. And it was challenging, you know, being perceived as someone that didn’t have the adult life skills yet, when you have been for 12 years. Basically I regressed to well, you know, as a kid again, and that was challenging. And I was also looking for work. And that was really hard too. That was the other big stressor. I was unemployed for a year and a half. I had sporadic work covering a maternity leave, did some supply teaching, but I applied 50, 60 jobs. It was challenging. So yeah, those two things made it hard.
Damianne: [00:12:00] How long did you end up staying in Canada?
Angela: [00:12:03] I stayed for two years.
Damianne: [00:12:06] In that time, did it begin to feel more comfortable? Did you at any point think, Oh, maybe I want to transition back to Canada?
Angela: [00:12:15] Oh, I would love to transition back to Canada. Absolutely. I just couldn’t find a way for it to work for me, but I loved being back in Canada. One of the things that’s really hard about living overseas, you know, I didn’t talk about this, but in terms of Prague and Japan, is the language barrier. You can’t read things, understand things, participate in the community. And so when I was living in Toronto, it was fantastic. I got to participate in the community. I volunteered for habitat for humanity, got to do some construction skills. I joined this church and I volunteered at their kitchen and got to know some really nice ladies, I joined a squash league. I did Zumba classes. It joined the adult learning course where you learned to fix bikes, joined meetups it was just, I got to do things with people and got to meet lots of people outside of work. And that’s hard to do when you’re living in a foreign country.
Damianne: [00:13:10] Cause you can end up being in a bubble. It’s very easy to make friends at work, and it’s quite challenging… I find that to be true in Japan, maybe more than anywhere else, that it’s quite challenging to get beyond the expat community.
Angela: [00:13:24] Oh yeah. Yeah.
Damianne: [00:13:26] What makes it so difficult to transition back to Canada? Is it the lack of teaching jobs? Is it the way that education system works? What was your experience?
Angela: [00:13:34] I think for me it was a lack of teaching jobs. The public school system at that point, they had, and you know, for a good seven, eight years, they had too many teacher graduates, not enough jobs and a lot of the retirees that were just sticking around to cover stuff. And then the way that they hire in the public school system, you would have to be a supply teacher for a set number of years or a timeframe. And then you would get on a long term, occasional position, and then permanent. So this would be years and years and years and years, and I couldn’t even get on the supply teacher list. And people don’t necessarily, especially in the public school system, they don’t necessarily recognize your credentials as an international school teacher. They think that you, you’re just teaching English. They don’t understand the private school independent system. So I actually had a lot more success in the private schools, the independent schools in Toronto. But yeah, I would say job opportunities. So I am trying to think about how else I could transform my teaching skills into something more applicable in Canada.
Damianne: [00:14:39] So that is your short term, long term, when you can make it work goal?
Angela: [00:14:43] Yeah. Yeah. It’s a life goal. I don’t know yet. Hence, I’m listening to your podcast, okay. How can we change.
Damianne: [00:14:53] Is there a part of the working overseas, teaching overseas life that you find to be compelling?
Angela: [00:15:00] Oh yeah. It’s changed a little bit more now. I find that as I’ve grown older that my priorities have changed, in terms of what I want in my life. But initially, when I was in my twenties and early thirties, I loved the travel. It was so exciting. And you had lots of opportunity to do this during your breaks and weekends, and it was nice to actually get to know people from like all walks of life. I’m an introvert, okay. And always have been. But when I moved overseas, I was kind of pushed, not pushed but you had to connect with other people. It was a life, I mean I didn’t realize it was a life skill. I was like, Oh, if you want to, you know, be happy here, you have to go outside your comfort zone. And it was neat cause I got to meet people that I normally wouldn’t have probably interacted with in Canada. So it was neat, getting to know people from different countries, different ages, different interests. And people were and generally are quite welcoming, and they had an incentive to get to know others because we’re all in the same boat.
Damianne: [00:16:03] Would you consider teaching somewhere else in Canada besides Toronto?
Angela: [00:16:09] I have certainly thought about that a couple months ago. I looked at, I think there’s some job opportunities in British Columbia and in Alberta, but you know, cost of living. Yeah, I don’t know. I would definitely think about that because the whole English speaking thing, yeah.
Damianne: [00:16:26] Definitely as, as you’ve lived in different areas as you’ve gone back and forth and considered what to do next, so whether or how you’re going to move to Canada, you’ve faced some hard things. What do you draw inspiration from during those moments?
Angela: [00:16:41] Well, I read a lot. I kind of do like my self help books. I’ve read a book called daring greatly by Brené Brown. She writes a lot of books on how it takes courage to be vulnerable. I definitely have gone back to her books several times. I listen to a lot of podcasts.
Damianne: [00:17:02] What’s one of your favorite ones?
Angela: [00:17:06] Other than, you know, Changes BIG and small. I also like terrible, terrible,
Damianne: [00:17:12] Terrible, thanks for asking. Nora…
Angela: [00:17:14] Yes, Nora McInerney. She is fantastic. She talks about really challenging things and how people get through them. And she’s funny as hell. So funny, very compassionate, caring, empathetic. And it’s just really inspiring, listening to some of the stories that she shares, like the people that she interviews. I guess it’s been about three, about three years now. I started doing some meditation with this Headspace app. Been helping me be a little bit more aware of my thoughts and feelings, and being sort of less judgmental and being more present in the moment. And I find it’s been really helpful and I just do 10 minutes a day.
Damianne: [00:18:02] So you went back to Canada. And then, what made you decide to go back overseas to Japan?
Angela: [00:18:08] One thing for sure, it was jobs. I wasn’t having any luck. And I really miss the structure of going to work nine to five, having my weekends off. I need structure in my life. I love having my own space, cooking my own food, privacy, all those things. I wanted to feel like an adult again. My dad’s illness seemed to be kind of in a stable position at that point. It was definitely a hard decision because his condition could change at any moment.
Damianne: [00:18:41] So was he undergoing any treatment at that point?
Angela: [00:18:43] Oh, absolutely. The first treatment he had was fantastic. It was a pill once a day that just targeted the gene mutation that caused the cancer and it kind of put his cancer on hold. But then, you know, the cells mutated and found a way to overcome the drug or whatever it was. But the medication lasted for probably a year or so, and then he switched to another drug. So, I mean, initially it was, he was doing okay. But cancer can be very insidious. I don’t know what to say.
Damianne: [00:19:18] Yeah. And at stage four, you kind of know that you’re managing, I guess, to some extent, right?
Angela: [00:19:24] Yeah. I mean, at that point, I think they said it was only 11% live beyond four to five years at that point. I think that was what the prognosis was. Yeah, definitely a hard decision to make, but they were okay with me leaving and they knew that I would come back if things got bad or if they needed my help, and I let school know too, right.
Damianne: [00:19:48] And you were very close to your dad, right?
Angela: [00:19:51] Oh yeah.
Damianne: [00:19:52] What was some of your favorite things that you got to do with him when you went back during those two years?
Angela: [00:19:58] Oh, definitely we would take walks, like my dad is a big walker. But it was so funny. Yeah, I would be sleeping in bed. He didn’t want to wake me up or anything, but I have super hearing, really good hearing. So he would go downstairs and he would lock and unlock the door bolt downstairs. And it’s pretty loud, right. And that would wake me up. But he would go outside and walk. I and I would hear and throw my clothes on an, run downstairs and off, we’d go walking. But he didn’t want to like impose his walking on. But I love walking with him. So yeah, that was great. Initially, too, the hospital visits, they were quality father-daughter time. We’d go downtown together, have a Tim Horton’s. I talked to the nice doctors, see how everything was going. At that point, it was going okay. And then we’d like go for lunch after the doctor visit, and he’d tell me stories about university because the hospital was near the university he went to downtown. For the most part, it was really nice spending that time with him and that’s why I went home.
Damianne: [00:21:06] After that, things seemed like they were at a kind of a standstill, I guess, at the time. And you wanted a job, so you went to Japan then.
Angela: [00:21:17] Yeah
Damianne: [00:21:18] Did things start to deteriorate again, or what happened then?
Angela: [00:21:21] So I had a full year in Japan. And then this second year around November, things were not going so well. It was always a bit hard to tell because I would be calling my mother and sometimes she didn’t necessarily have the language or capabilities to tell me how things were, or she just wasn’t aware at that point. I knew that, Ooh, something kind of seems a bit off right now. So I talked to my school and I said, you know, can I, can I go back for Christmas because we have three weeks off. Can I take an extra week off? Can I get four weeks off? And then I went home and I spent four weeks with him. And at that point, and she definitely had…
Damianne: [00:21:59] You could see a difference.
Angela: [00:22:01] Oh, big time. Because I said to you, the walks, those are what, it’s mental and physical. As long as you can take those walks, it’s okay. And so at that point, you know, he was losing some of his mobility. He was getting breathless because of the lung cancer. Yeah, he was losing mobility. He couldn’t breathe as well. And then we started looking at palliative care and you know, what would happen if, you know, hospice… Cause my mum couldn’t, you know, meet his needs. That one month that I was home was probably the most challenging time in my life. It was really, really hard. But at the same time. Even though it’s extremely difficult to be in that situation, it’s important to be there, I guess.
Damianne: [00:22:43] It’s what needs doing, right?
Angela: [00:22:45] It’s what needs doing
Damianne: [00:22:47] And you want to do it also, despite the challenge.
Angela: [00:22:50] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I still, because of those two years that I was in Toronto and I met a lot of people and the church that I was going to, they provided a lot of emotional support, talking with, yeah, and that was, that was really helpful. I was really, really, really glad that I asked for the extra week off. So I had a month home, and then I went back to school for two weeks and then I got a phone call from my brother saying, come home. And then during the phone call I talked to the palliative care doctor that I’d been talking to, and he passed away while I was talking. But I kind of felt that I was there in some ways because this doctor was trying to sort out my mom, my dad, and I didn’t realize how bad it was, right. But even though I wasn’t there, I felt that I was there. So then I went home for two weeks after that.
Damianne: [00:23:47] And that’s the really kind of insidious thing with cancer too, because it can happen so quickly. Both my grandmother and my aunt passed away of cancer, and they both found out when it was already at stage four. And I saw them, and then a few months later I saw them and they looked, like it was such a big difference. It was amazing to me that in a matter of weeks, the body could be so ravaged by this disease.
Angela: [00:24:18] It sounds so super cheesy to say this, but you know, life is, life is really precious and just really appreciate the time that you have with your loved ones, even though sometimes it can be frustrating. I remember just, when I took those walks with him, you know, having McDonald’s breakfast cause we like doing that. Just really locking in those memories and those times when he was well, was like a little bank in my heart, you know, just enjoy it. And I mean I, I truly did too. I enjoyed all that time with my dad, but it was just extra special because I knew it was, you know, it’s not forever. You have a limited time.
Damianne: [00:25:02] I only met your dad once, but what I remember about him is his upbeat, positive energy. Because I came to visit you once in Toronto and he drove me to my hotel in downtown Toronto.
Angela: [00:25:18] I’m so glad you, yes, you did meet him.Oh, that’s so nice. I’m really glad that you got to meet him.
Damianne: [00:25:25] As we end our chat for today, what’s next for you? What are you thinking right now?
Angela: [00:25:31] I’m kind of in transition right now because I’m not sure whether I should continue with my life in Japan. I would actually love, love to move back to Europe, or if I should really give Toronto, Canada a second chance. Yeah. I don’t know. I have, I mean, there’s one way to look at it. I have a lot of options. I don’t really know what, so I have to decide by next year. I don’t know what I want to do.
Damianne: [00:26:00] Well, there’s one thing, deciding by next year, but then there’s also another thing in being intentional. Because last time you went back to Canada, you hadn’t really planned for it. It happened because of the circumstances and you chose it, but not with the kind of planning and preparation that you generally put into things. You talked about liking routines and so I’m thinking that you tend to be a bit of a planner. And so if you did want to go back to Canada, you might want to put together a plan of what do you need to do financially, mentally, emotionally, like what are the things you need to put in place that would support a transition back to Canada, that would give you the time that you need to be able to establish a position as a teacher. From your previous experience there, you kind of know what the landscape is. You know that it doesn’t just happen like this, but that it could take a while. And so what are some things that you might be able to put in place in order to give yourself the time that you need?
Angela: [00:27:07] Are you saying like to give myself the time to plan there, when I’m there?
Damianne: [00:27:14] Yeah.
Angela: [00:27:14] Is what you’re saying?
Damianne: [00:27:15] Yeah, to plan before and then to also plan for the time that you’re going to need there. Because if it takes you three years, like three years without a salary, it’s no joking matter. But three years with part time work and with some amount of savings may be okay. Or three years with a connection that you’ve built might be okay. So it kind of depends. Maybe it will take two years before you can get in a place where you would be able to go back to Canada, because in that time you’re going to save, and in that time you’re going to take a course from the Ontario College of Teachers. You’re going to do whatever the things are that would help you build some confidence in the Ontario school system. I’m not sure exactly what it takes, but …
Angela: [00:28:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Damianne: [00:28:03] Or even if you could find somebody who’s done it, there might be some opportunities, probably planning ahead for it and giving yourself time beforehand as well as on the ground once you’re there, realizing that it’s not going to happen straightaway and being okay with that. What do you need to do in order to be okay with that?
Angela: [00:28:22] What do I need to be okay with that?
Damianne: [00:28:27] And maybe the answer is you’re not okay with that, in which case you got plan B, plan C or something else.
Angela: [00:28:33] No, I also thought if I might need to switch careers if I go back to Canada. Go to Europe and find a teaching job.
Damianne: [00:28:40] Yeah, it might be that you have to teach another subject. Is there another subject you could become quantified for another area or something? Because I know some people have gone back, but it tends to be that there is more need in certain areas than others. Or would you be willing to go to Northern Ontario? It’s pretty cold up there, but hey, maybe.
Angela: [00:29:02] North, but not that far North, like Norther, less Toronto more… Yeah. I have. Yeah. Quality of life would be slightly better too, I think, cause traffic and congestion are pretty bad here.
Damianne: [00:29:16] Yeah, but it’s the whole idea of delayed gratification, right? And planning for the future that you want.
Angela: [00:29:21] Yeah.
Damianne: [00:29:23] That’s the challenge. I appreciate the fact that you have this set goal of you want to go back to Canada, and I think once you have a clear vision like this, it helps to then be able to set an intention. Once you have that goal and you have this commitment towards it, I believe you can make this happen.
Angela: [00:29:44] Okay. And not let any of those doubts conflict flying in. Just be like …
Damianne: [00:29:50] You may have doubts and those are normal too. Like I mean with your whole mindfulness…
Angela: [00:29:56] Oh, that’s true. I know, I know. I know. Sorry.
Damianne: [00:30:00] So it’s a big challenge for 2020.
Angela: [00:30:02] Oh scary. Okay.
Damianne: [00:30:06] But that’s okay. Scary is not bad.
Angela: [00:30:08] I know, I know. I know. But still …
Damianne: [00:30:10] So, I mean, we know that you’re in a transition stage. We’re always in some sort of a transition stage, everybody I guess to some extent. If somebody is trying to decide what to do or they’re facing a difficult choice, what advice might you have? You’ve already mentioned the work of Brene Brown, Daring Greatly. Is there any other resources or ways of thinking that you might share with our listeners as well?
Angela: [00:30:44] Sometimes bad things and sort of difficult emotions, you’ll experience them, but eventually, eventually they, they do pass or the intensity of those feelings will decrease. And so not to get to attach to them or think that things won’t change. When I was in that difficult, challenging thing, with, you know, unemployment, my dad’s illness, it got really bad. It was hard to see through the end of that tunnel, it felt like darkness, stress. It felt like it would never end. But it does end. It will end, but it’s hard to see that when you’re in that moment. It feels all consuming. So the meditation does help with that. Things always change, for better, for worse, and the meditation tells you to sit with it, even though it’s extremely uncomfortable and that’s a part of life.
Damianne: [00:31:40] Thank you so much for chatting with me today. It’s been a wonderful conversation.
Angela: [00:31:45] I love talking to you.
Thank you for listening to this episode. If you’ve enjoyed the episode or have any questions, please let me know. You can reach me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram or by filling out the contact form on the website. I’d especially like it if you would join the Changes Big and small Facebook community. I share additional resources there, and would love to support you in your change journey.
I hope you’ll share this episode with someone else. Every time I see even one new listen, that inspires me to keep creating the podcast. I appreciate you going on this journey with me.
As always, remember that change begins with one small step! Have a great week!
- Theme music by Rafael Krux. Inspiration on freepd.com. License: CC0
- Photos in this post provided by Interviewee. All Rights Reserved.